Proper amount of gluten


Hello All,

First time poster. Thank you very much for any and all help. I have made maybe 25 batches always changing a little something have not been able to solve my problem.

I am having trouble with my dough being too workable. It is so delicate that gravity alone will eventually rip it if I hold it up after forming the crust. Also, the middle gets so thin that there is really not enough tdough in the middle so it sometimes rips in the pizza oven when I first put it in or rotate it.

I have tried 100% "00", 70/30 "00" and AllTrumps and 50/50 00 and All trumps with the same result. I have tried more kneeding and less kneeding. More water and less water. nothing seens to make a differance.

Here is my basic recipe

100 flour
65% water
2% Salt
.6% ADY

I mix most the flour, water and yeast in the stand mixer for 5 minutes. then let it sit for 20, then add the rest of the flour and continue for another 7-8 minutes adding the salt near the end. Then I hand kneed it for 3 minutes, cut it and make balls and put them all in a proofing tray, leave it on the counter for an hour , then in the fridge for 2-4 days. I bring them out 2 hours before I make the pies.

Am I right to assume that I dont have enough Gluten development?

Am I possibly not kneeding enough? I see some recipes have almost no kneeding, and I have tried 15 minutes in the mixer and 5 minutes on the counter to no avail.

Do I have too much water? It isnt runny and seems to behave correctly when I am hand kneeding it.

Could I need more yeast, or more time out on the counter before I put ithem in the fridge?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Andy

Andy C.
posted over 1 year ago

Save 0

How are you activating the yeast?

matt howard
posted over 1 year ago


Andy,

Your mixing process is a bit unusual, but from what you describe, it sounds like you might have issues with any one of three steps: the mixing, the balling and the opening. With the problems you're having, a quick post response isn't t likely to give you the information you need. It might be gluten development (one of your questions), but not necessarily. Have you read he master class chapter of the pizza bible? It will give you the insights you need to have a great dough, and it talks about the three elements I mentioned in depth (and lots of other critical factors and steps).

Good luck!

Adam

Adam Sachs
posted over 1 year ago


Good Morning Matt and Adam, and thank you for jumping in to help.

Matt, on the yeast I used ADY. I took a small amount of the water and heated it to 105 degrees and put the yeast in it and whisked.

Adam, Thanks for the reference to the masters class. My referred to mixing process is something that I will admit is the combination of many recipes and suggestions I have read in the hopes of allowing more gluten development.

I have read the masters class and found it very useful. Last week I used the Neapolitan recipe from the bible almost exactly. The only alteration I made was that I used ADY (.6), no starter, and total hydration of 65%. otherwise I followed the instructions exactly. My result wasn't much different than my past batches using other recipes when it comes to workability.

I will add that when I am done hand kneed it and it gets to the place that I think is smooth as the directions state, I am not sure I have done enough. It seems to ball just like the book suggests, and I am careful to make a tight seal on the bottom. If I look at them 6-12 hours after I refrigerate them, they have flattened out a good bit. After two days, they haven't risen a great deal, maybe 50%, and they are a little wet looking and feeling. Shiny and a little dense. Not like the picture in the bible on page 31.

My thoughts are that either I need to work it more to develop more gluten, leave it on the counter longer before I refrigerate to give it a kick-start, or do something different with the yeast.

Thanks for the time to read this. Happy Thanksgiving,

Andy

Andy C.
posted over 1 year ago


Andy,

Thanks for those added details, they really help with guessing at what might be going wrong. My best guess, which may be wrong, is that your yeast is too active. You're getting it active at a much higher temperature than the pizza bible suggests, and your dough temperature may be too high, too, which would make things even worse. Try following the master class procedure and see how that works; pay attention to the water temperatures, they make a difference. It doesn't sound like a hydration level issue at all. The other thing I'd recommend at this point is that you stick with a high protein flour, like the All Trumps you have.

For what it's worth, your current method of developing the flour is about the most complicated method I've ever read, and I'd steer clear of it.

Good luck!

Adam

Adam Sachs
posted over 1 year ago


Hi Adam,

Thank you very much for the response. I will definitely re read the master class and start anew with my procedure.
On my procedure, I might have given the wrong idea. I started doing things more traditionally and simple. The one I described above is the morfed procedure it has come to with my attempts to change things up. ugh. Probably best to start back at the drawing board.

I have a wood fired oven and am interested in getting the traditional method with 00 to work. I started adding in the all trumps in the hope that at least some more protein would make a difference. Hopefully there is something in the master class that will be a light bulb moment and solve my issue.

Thanks again

Andy

Andy C.
posted over 1 year ago


Andy,

I didn't know you're working with a wood fired oven. While All Trumps isn't the flour for a Neopolitan pizza, it'll be an easier dough to work with, and once you get the feel of it and have success opening the doughs, you'll have a better sense of what you're looking for when you move to the Caputo for the Neopolitan.

Adam

Adam Sachs
posted over 1 year ago


Adam. Great idea. I am off to make a batch with 100% all trumps. Thanks for all your guidance.

Andy

Andy C.
posted over 1 year ago


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